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	<title>Comments on: Super Feeding: Do Mycorrhizae Have a Role in Hydroponics?</title>
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	<link>http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2010/01/super-feeding-do-mycorrhizae-have-a-role-in-hydroponics/</link>
	<description>Hydroponics for Growing Minds</description>
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		<title>By: qnpq</title>
		<link>http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2010/01/super-feeding-do-mycorrhizae-have-a-role-in-hydroponics/comment-page-1/#comment-1750</link>
		<dc:creator>qnpq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Mar 2011 18:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangardenmagazine.com/?p=1949#comment-1750</guid>
		<description>I have heard if you inoculate with mycorrizhae before introducing beneficial bacteria like trichoderma and bacillus it works better b/c the bennies won&#039;t out-compete the fungi.

I have no research to back this up /sadface

Any truths to this claim?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have heard if you inoculate with mycorrizhae before introducing beneficial bacteria like trichoderma and bacillus it works better b/c the bennies won&#8217;t out-compete the fungi.</p>
<p>I have no research to back this up /sadface</p>
<p>Any truths to this claim?</p>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2010/01/super-feeding-do-mycorrhizae-have-a-role-in-hydroponics/comment-page-1/#comment-1589</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangardenmagazine.com/?p=1949#comment-1589</guid>
		<description>I can say from personal experience that mycorrhizae will save your roots if they are infected with rot. I added  great white powder at the recommended dose to my DWC reservoir.  Within a week the roots went from a  yellow color (with brown slim on them), to perfectly white. The root mass doubled as well. These plants were not flowering at the time I introduced the mycorrhizae. I am getting from this article and the comments, that using mycorrhizae during flowering is pointless? What does everyone else think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can say from personal experience that mycorrhizae will save your roots if they are infected with rot. I added  great white powder at the recommended dose to my DWC reservoir.  Within a week the roots went from a  yellow color (with brown slim on them), to perfectly white. The root mass doubled as well. These plants were not flowering at the time I introduced the mycorrhizae. I am getting from this article and the comments, that using mycorrhizae during flowering is pointless? What does everyone else think?</p>
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		<title>By: BigD</title>
		<link>http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2010/01/super-feeding-do-mycorrhizae-have-a-role-in-hydroponics/comment-page-1/#comment-1539</link>
		<dc:creator>BigD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 23:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangardenmagazine.com/?p=1949#comment-1539</guid>
		<description>I have to say, research aside...and personal experience behind me.  Fungal inoculation definitely has a place in hydroponics!  I have seen huge increases in root mass, as well as overall health of root development post inoculation.

I have experienced positive results in both recirculating ebb and flow set ups as well as recirculating DWC.  I have used it when root structure is unimpressive, or seems stressed.  The results appear within days of treatment.  Definitely &quot;dirties&quot; things up, but if you need some help with slow roots... it&#039;s worth the trade off.  I hate to end with a plug, but having tried a number of options I find GH&#039;s Sub Culture M to be the best in terms of results.

Good Luck...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say, research aside&#8230;and personal experience behind me.  Fungal inoculation definitely has a place in hydroponics!  I have seen huge increases in root mass, as well as overall health of root development post inoculation.</p>
<p>I have experienced positive results in both recirculating ebb and flow set ups as well as recirculating DWC.  I have used it when root structure is unimpressive, or seems stressed.  The results appear within days of treatment.  Definitely &#8220;dirties&#8221; things up, but if you need some help with slow roots&#8230; it&#8217;s worth the trade off.  I hate to end with a plug, but having tried a number of options I find GH&#8217;s Sub Culture M to be the best in terms of results.</p>
<p>Good Luck&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: dan</title>
		<link>http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2010/01/super-feeding-do-mycorrhizae-have-a-role-in-hydroponics/comment-page-1/#comment-1337</link>
		<dc:creator>dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Sep 2010 22:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangardenmagazine.com/?p=1949#comment-1337</guid>
		<description>Thanks once again Jimboon.  We would welcome a piece from you on this subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks once again Jimboon.  We would welcome a piece from you on this subject.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimboon</title>
		<link>http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2010/01/super-feeding-do-mycorrhizae-have-a-role-in-hydroponics/comment-page-1/#comment-1315</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimboon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 13:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangardenmagazine.com/?p=1949#comment-1315</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s another paper guys. I&#039;ve been reading a few more also. All roads lead to mycorrhizal fungi being highly ineffective in hydroponic settings. At the very best their viability is highly questionable. I&#039;m happy to write a piece for you on why mycorrhizal fungi shouldn&#039;t be used in hydroponic settings if you like. As it turns out it gets even more complex with competition between trichoderma and bacillus and mycorrhizal fungi - the prior two being beneficial in hydroponic settings but likely render to a degree ineffective by ineffective mycorrhizal fungi. The question I would pose to your experts is do they understand ATP? 

Is there a role for arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi in production agriculture?
Megan H. Ryan1,3 &amp; James H. Graham2
1CSIRO Plant Industry, GPO Box 1600, Canberra, ACT, 2601, Australia. 2University of Florida, Citrus Research
and Education Center, Lake Alfred, FL 33850, U.S.A. 3Corresponding author∗
Received 21 August 2001. Accepted in revised form 20 February 2002

Conclusion: 

“….Intensive horticultural systems with high inputs of P-fertiliser and fungicides may reduce formation of
AMF and negate any potential benefits from AMF for crop nutrition and root health. Under the moderate Plevels that prevail in the majority of field crop systems,
early season colonisation by AMF may often be parasitic, creating a C-drain on crops and reducing yields. Even if P is deficient for plant growth, AMF can not be assumed to enhance growth as in some regions the ability of AMF to enhance host growth appears constrained
by factors we currently do not understand. Hence crop responses to AMF are often unpredictable
and contrary to their reputation as ‘biological fertilisers’.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s another paper guys. I&#8217;ve been reading a few more also. All roads lead to mycorrhizal fungi being highly ineffective in hydroponic settings. At the very best their viability is highly questionable. I&#8217;m happy to write a piece for you on why mycorrhizal fungi shouldn&#8217;t be used in hydroponic settings if you like. As it turns out it gets even more complex with competition between trichoderma and bacillus and mycorrhizal fungi &#8211; the prior two being beneficial in hydroponic settings but likely render to a degree ineffective by ineffective mycorrhizal fungi. The question I would pose to your experts is do they understand ATP? </p>
<p>Is there a role for arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi in production agriculture?<br />
Megan H. Ryan1,3 &amp; James H. Graham2<br />
1CSIRO Plant Industry, GPO Box 1600, Canberra, ACT, 2601, Australia. 2University of Florida, Citrus Research<br />
and Education Center, Lake Alfred, FL 33850, U.S.A. 3Corresponding author∗<br />
Received 21 August 2001. Accepted in revised form 20 February 2002</p>
<p>Conclusion: </p>
<p>“….Intensive horticultural systems with high inputs of P-fertiliser and fungicides may reduce formation of<br />
AMF and negate any potential benefits from AMF for crop nutrition and root health. Under the moderate Plevels that prevail in the majority of field crop systems,<br />
early season colonisation by AMF may often be parasitic, creating a C-drain on crops and reducing yields. Even if P is deficient for plant growth, AMF can not be assumed to enhance growth as in some regions the ability of AMF to enhance host growth appears constrained<br />
by factors we currently do not understand. Hence crop responses to AMF are often unpredictable<br />
and contrary to their reputation as ‘biological fertilisers’.”</p>
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		<title>By: Jimboon</title>
		<link>http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2010/01/super-feeding-do-mycorrhizae-have-a-role-in-hydroponics/comment-page-1/#comment-1301</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimboon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangardenmagazine.com/?p=1949#comment-1301</guid>
		<description>Respect for placing up my posts which at least demonstrates a willingness to post peer reviewed information that counters your own. 
Sure guys when your experts present their research which is peer reviewed I&#039;ll look forward to seeing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Respect for placing up my posts which at least demonstrates a willingness to post peer reviewed information that counters your own.<br />
Sure guys when your experts present their research which is peer reviewed I&#8217;ll look forward to seeing it.</p>
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		<title>By: dan</title>
		<link>http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2010/01/super-feeding-do-mycorrhizae-have-a-role-in-hydroponics/comment-page-1/#comment-1300</link>
		<dc:creator>dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangardenmagazine.com/?p=1949#comment-1300</guid>
		<description>Eyup Jimboon,

Thanks for posting up further research on Mycorrhizae in high P levels.  And please keep it coming—it&#039;s fascinating. We are in touch with Dr. Michael Amaranthus, the author of the article, and will be posting up other research papers shortly.

Now then, a polite word in your ear, albeit on a public forum (as you continually make up email addresses we have no other choice!) We are not pushing a mycorrhizae-based commercial agenda. And we are not run by any nutrient or hydroponic wholesale company. The whole point of Urban Garden Mag is that it&#039;s written by growers, for growers.  Yes, we all have our friends in the industry.  That&#039;s life.  That&#039;s human.  But we&#039;re not &quot;run&quot; by some shadowy bosses, &quot;manufacturing consent&quot; as you put it.  Hey Jimboon, if you want to write a counter article, we&#039;d definitely consider it for publication.  You&#039;re clearly well read on the subject.  So how about that?

The whole point of the article was to ask the question &quot;Do Mycorrhizae have a role in Hydroponics?&quot; and we cite that some nutrient companies say YES and some say NO.  There is evidence that certain strains of Mycorrhizae are more tolerant of high P levels than others.  The article also serves to demonstrate the role of mycorrhizae in general.

If you really believe that we get up in the morning to push the agendas of certain parts of the industry then ... well, the politest thing we can say is that you grossly underestimate us.  But at least give us a chance to prove otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eyup Jimboon,</p>
<p>Thanks for posting up further research on Mycorrhizae in high P levels.  And please keep it coming—it&#8217;s fascinating. We are in touch with Dr. Michael Amaranthus, the author of the article, and will be posting up other research papers shortly.</p>
<p>Now then, a polite word in your ear, albeit on a public forum (as you continually make up email addresses we have no other choice!) We are not pushing a mycorrhizae-based commercial agenda. And we are not run by any nutrient or hydroponic wholesale company. The whole point of Urban Garden Mag is that it&#8217;s written by growers, for growers.  Yes, we all have our friends in the industry.  That&#8217;s life.  That&#8217;s human.  But we&#8217;re not &#8220;run&#8221; by some shadowy bosses, &#8220;manufacturing consent&#8221; as you put it.  Hey Jimboon, if you want to write a counter article, we&#8217;d definitely consider it for publication.  You&#8217;re clearly well read on the subject.  So how about that?</p>
<p>The whole point of the article was to ask the question &#8220;Do Mycorrhizae have a role in Hydroponics?&#8221; and we cite that some nutrient companies say YES and some say NO.  There is evidence that certain strains of Mycorrhizae are more tolerant of high P levels than others.  The article also serves to demonstrate the role of mycorrhizae in general.</p>
<p>If you really believe that we get up in the morning to push the agendas of certain parts of the industry then &#8230; well, the politest thing we can say is that you grossly underestimate us.  But at least give us a chance to prove otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimboon</title>
		<link>http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2010/01/super-feeding-do-mycorrhizae-have-a-role-in-hydroponics/comment-page-1/#comment-1299</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimboon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangardenmagazine.com/?p=1949#comment-1299</guid>
		<description>There ya go lads - twisting the facts. I note you edited me when discussing Urban Garden is owned and run by {DELETED} and Advanced Nutrients (who sell growers mychorrizae for use in Hydroponics). Actaully let me correct the detractor on the 20ppm of P and state that VAM nutrients should contain about 10ppm of P. Here&#039;s another piece of research - I&#039;m happy to post loads more. Jesus, Noam Chomsky would have a firld day with this one ----- hydro companies manufacturing consent. 

Abstract (H.-J. Hawkins and E. George)
Linum usitatissimum, Sorghum bicolor and Triticum aestivum plants were further colonised by the arbuscular mycorrhizal fungus, Glomus mosseae, during a four week period of hydroponic culture after a pre-culture period of three weeks with the fungus in perlite substrate. The viability of mycorrhizal colonisation of T. aestivum was indicated by an initial experiment where G. mosseae from mycorrhizal plants colonised non-mycorrhizal plants when the plants were grown together in the same hydroponic container using modified Long Ashton nutrient solution. Intermittant aeration of the plant roots (2 h periods, four times per day) provided a compromise between adequate aeration and minimal disturbance of the fungus. In a second experiment, two nutrient media, modified Long Ashton and modified Knop plus Hoagland medium were compared for culturing G. mosseae on T. aestivum. A significantly higher root dry weight was found for the mycorrhizal versus the non-mycorrhizal wheat plants in modified Long Ashton nutrient medium, which contained 10 µM P and an organic buffer. Modified Knop plus Hoagland nutrient medium contained a high P concentration (0.9 mM) and did not produce viable cultures of mycorrhizal colonisation. In a third experiment, modified Long Ashton medium was used for hydroponic culture of mycorrhizal L. usitatissimum, S. bicolor and T. aestivum. The root colonisation percentages for T. aestivum (73%), S. bicolor (36%) and L. usitatissimum (65%) were within the range of colonisation rates obtained with solid substrate culture in perlite. Viability of the mycorrhizal structures in hydroponic culture was assessed by monitoring activity of fungal succinate dehydrogenase and found to be similar to cultures in perlite. No difference in the P concentration of mycorrhizal and non-mycorrhizal plants was observed, possibly owing to the lack of diffusion limits for P in hydroponic solution. This report describes a system for the viable culture of G. mosseae with different plant species where a high mycorrhizal colonisation rate was produced under conditions of a short culture period using intermittent aeration, a low concentration of P supply and an organic buffer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There ya go lads &#8211; twisting the facts. I note you edited me when discussing Urban Garden is owned and run by {DELETED} and Advanced Nutrients (who sell growers mychorrizae for use in Hydroponics). Actaully let me correct the detractor on the 20ppm of P and state that VAM nutrients should contain about 10ppm of P. Here&#8217;s another piece of research &#8211; I&#8217;m happy to post loads more. Jesus, Noam Chomsky would have a firld day with this one &#8212;&#8211; hydro companies manufacturing consent. </p>
<p>Abstract (H.-J. Hawkins and E. George)<br />
Linum usitatissimum, Sorghum bicolor and Triticum aestivum plants were further colonised by the arbuscular mycorrhizal fungus, Glomus mosseae, during a four week period of hydroponic culture after a pre-culture period of three weeks with the fungus in perlite substrate. The viability of mycorrhizal colonisation of T. aestivum was indicated by an initial experiment where G. mosseae from mycorrhizal plants colonised non-mycorrhizal plants when the plants were grown together in the same hydroponic container using modified Long Ashton nutrient solution. Intermittant aeration of the plant roots (2 h periods, four times per day) provided a compromise between adequate aeration and minimal disturbance of the fungus. In a second experiment, two nutrient media, modified Long Ashton and modified Knop plus Hoagland medium were compared for culturing G. mosseae on T. aestivum. A significantly higher root dry weight was found for the mycorrhizal versus the non-mycorrhizal wheat plants in modified Long Ashton nutrient medium, which contained 10 µM P and an organic buffer. Modified Knop plus Hoagland nutrient medium contained a high P concentration (0.9 mM) and did not produce viable cultures of mycorrhizal colonisation. In a third experiment, modified Long Ashton medium was used for hydroponic culture of mycorrhizal L. usitatissimum, S. bicolor and T. aestivum. The root colonisation percentages for T. aestivum (73%), S. bicolor (36%) and L. usitatissimum (65%) were within the range of colonisation rates obtained with solid substrate culture in perlite. Viability of the mycorrhizal structures in hydroponic culture was assessed by monitoring activity of fungal succinate dehydrogenase and found to be similar to cultures in perlite. No difference in the P concentration of mycorrhizal and non-mycorrhizal plants was observed, possibly owing to the lack of diffusion limits for P in hydroponic solution. This report describes a system for the viable culture of G. mosseae with different plant species where a high mycorrhizal colonisation rate was produced under conditions of a short culture period using intermittent aeration, a low concentration of P supply and an organic buffer.</p>
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		<title>By: dan</title>
		<link>http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2010/01/super-feeding-do-mycorrhizae-have-a-role-in-hydroponics/comment-page-1/#comment-1295</link>
		<dc:creator>dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 15:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangardenmagazine.com/?p=1949#comment-1295</guid>
		<description>We do not mean to &quot;twist the facts.&quot;  We even reference the high phosphorus levels inhibiting mycorrhizae propagule development in the article. So ... not entirely sure what point are you trying to make here.

&quot;Feel free to post condescending insults!&quot;  Well this is indeed an interesting reflection.

Myco spore germination is inhibited by high available P levels.  But there are commercial myco products out there comprised of strains that have the ability to handle P. Some types can only handle available P at 20ppm so they are no good for hydroponics.  There are other species that do well from 70-100 ppm during spore germination and can then can handle up to 300ppm.

PS those studies below are 20 years old. There is lots more recent info that shows a range of P response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We do not mean to &#8220;twist the facts.&#8221;  We even reference the high phosphorus levels inhibiting mycorrhizae propagule development in the article. So &#8230; not entirely sure what point are you trying to make here.</p>
<p>&#8220;Feel free to post condescending insults!&#8221;  Well this is indeed an interesting reflection.</p>
<p>Myco spore germination is inhibited by high available P levels.  But there are commercial myco products out there comprised of strains that have the ability to handle P. Some types can only handle available P at 20ppm so they are no good for hydroponics.  There are other species that do well from 70-100 ppm during spore germination and can then can handle up to 300ppm.</p>
<p>PS those studies below are 20 years old. There is lots more recent info that shows a range of P response.</p>
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		<title>By: JIMBOON</title>
		<link>http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2010/01/super-feeding-do-mycorrhizae-have-a-role-in-hydroponics/comment-page-1/#comment-1292</link>
		<dc:creator>JIMBOON</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Aug 2010 14:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangardenmagazine.com/?p=1949#comment-1292</guid>
		<description>I note that you are asking a detractor of the viability of mycorrhizae in hydroponics to post up links to research. Well guys surely you know there is reams and reams of research that crosses this and supports these claims - but I&#039;m sure that a magazine would perhaps twist the facts. See below for some research; as you put it, it&#039;s complex and in hydroponics it becomes even more complex with many experts on VAM reasoning that their effectiveness in hydroponic settings is extremely limited. See following... 

Influence of Phosphorus on Mycorrhizae:
The benefits listed above are greatest in P-deficient soils and decrease as soil
phosphate levels increase (Schubert &amp; Hayman, 1986).
Very high and very low phosphorus levels may reduce mycorrhizal
infection/colonization (Koide, 1991). It is well established that:
Mycorrhiza and soil phosphorus levels Colorado State University Cooperative Extension ... Page 1 of 4
http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopExt/TRA/PLANTS/mycorrhiza.html?PrintWindow 12/28/2004
􀁺 infection by mycorrhizal fungi is significantly reduced at high soil phosphorus
levels (Amijee et al., 1989; Koide &amp; Li, 1990)
􀁺 the addition of phosphate fertilization results in a delay in infection as well as a
decrease in the percentage of infection of roots by mycorrhizae (deMiranda,
Harris &amp; Wild, 1989; Asimi et al., 1989)
􀁺 an increase in the level of soil phosphate results in a reduction in
chlamydospore production by the fungus (Menge, et al. 1978). These spores
are involved in root infection and spread of the fungus through the soil profile.

Please feel free to post condescending insults.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I note that you are asking a detractor of the viability of mycorrhizae in hydroponics to post up links to research. Well guys surely you know there is reams and reams of research that crosses this and supports these claims &#8211; but I&#8217;m sure that a magazine would perhaps twist the facts. See below for some research; as you put it, it&#8217;s complex and in hydroponics it becomes even more complex with many experts on VAM reasoning that their effectiveness in hydroponic settings is extremely limited. See following&#8230; </p>
<p>Influence of Phosphorus on Mycorrhizae:<br />
The benefits listed above are greatest in P-deficient soils and decrease as soil<br />
phosphate levels increase (Schubert &amp; Hayman, 1986).<br />
Very high and very low phosphorus levels may reduce mycorrhizal<br />
infection/colonization (Koide, 1991). It is well established that:<br />
Mycorrhiza and soil phosphorus levels Colorado State University Cooperative Extension &#8230; Page 1 of 4<br />
<a href="http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopExt/TRA/PLANTS/mycorrhiza.html?PrintWindow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopExt/TRA/PLANTS/mycorrhiza.html?PrintWindow</a> 12/28/2004<br />
􀁺 infection by mycorrhizal fungi is significantly reduced at high soil phosphorus<br />
levels (Amijee et al., 1989; Koide &amp; Li, 1990)<br />
􀁺 the addition of phosphate fertilization results in a delay in infection as well as a<br />
decrease in the percentage of infection of roots by mycorrhizae (deMiranda,<br />
Harris &amp; Wild, 1989; Asimi et al., 1989)<br />
􀁺 an increase in the level of soil phosphate results in a reduction in<br />
chlamydospore production by the fungus (Menge, et al. 1978). These spores<br />
are involved in root infection and spread of the fungus through the soil profile.</p>
<p>Please feel free to post condescending insults.</p>
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